Olin Moyles Ghost

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Posts by Olin Moyles Ghost

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  49

  can we do a list of jw things that go "beyond what is written?".....

  by oompa in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  or if there is one already...point me to it...the longer i am here...the more i realize that the fds/wt may have started with good intentions like maybe the pharisees did....but they went nutso and added a zillion things not even in the bible and so have the fds...some of these things are minor and some are not...like".

  1. hatred of mens facial hair and sideburns (privileges witheld if you have too much or wrong style) also length of mens hair.

  2. clothing requirements, ties/jackets/suits mandatory for ministry/talks/privileges....and sisters can freeze there ass of rather than wear a hilliary clinton pantsuit or they can not be on the school.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Oompa, great topic. Here are a few for your consideration:

  • Permitting (and encouraging) child baptism. Every baptism in the NT involved "men and women." Jesus was about 30 years old when he was baptized. There are lots of examples in Watchtower articles of baptized 10, 11, 12-year olds (and perhaps younger?).
  • Discouraging/forbidding school sports and extra-curricular activities. This is done under the auspices of 1 Cor. 15:33 (bad associations), but what scriptural precedent is there for classifying all non-JWs (or even all non-christians, for that matter) as bad association? Jesus associated with sinners and non-believers.
  • Requiring a confession of certain types of sins to a group of elders. The NT is clear that forgiveness only comes through Christ's sacrifice. There's a passage in James that says 'if there is anyone sick among you, let him call the older men...' The WT interprets this to mean that "spiritually sick" JWs have to confess really bad sins (fornication, drunkenness, stealing, etc.) to elders. But that's a bit of a stretch. In Ray Franz's second book, he discusses a disagreement that he had with Uncle Fred about this scripture. Ray pointed out that the Greek word translated "sick" literally meant physically sick. This makes sense to me, because at the time James wrote his letter, the "older men" still had gifts of the spirit--such as healing. Thus, if someone was sick he could go to one of these faith-healing elders! But even if James meant "spiritually sick," there's still nothing in that scripture that says "people who commit certain types of sins have to confess them to a group of men in order to be forgiven." It just isn't there.
  • Disfellowshipping for smoking. While I agree that it's a rotten habit, there's no Biblical basis for casting someone out of the congregation for smoking.
  • (I might catch some heat for this one...so let me go on record and say that I am not in favor of a literal application of this scripture!) Allowing women to comment and give parts on meetings. Paul is explicit and clear in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 that women are to be silent in church. Period. This is an example of how JWs pick and choose which parts of the Bible to take literally. When Paul says to "abstain from blood," the JWs say that means to completely abstain; but for some reason, when Paul says for women to be silent in church, they don't think that means to be completely silent. Inconsistent much?

  As to the "mediator" issue: I think it is a great example of going beyond what's written. In fact it's going directly opposite what's written. 1 Tim. 2:5 says that Christ is the mediator between men and God. The WT says 'well...not all men...just 144,000.'
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  23

  God has a secret Man-Crush on Satan.........

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's why i say that.......it's like they are a couple, and god wants to break it off...but is having a really hard time doing so...... 1. garden of eden...satan starts trashing god, calls him a liar, and gets a couple to turn away from god....so this screw up (oh interferes with) gods big plan......and he doesn't zap satan?...he doesn't even punish satan?...he just curses snakes and takes their legs away??....fishy.

  2. big meeting in heaven...in job i believe......and there is satan...still hangin with his homies.......no prob says god....just stay up here and corrupt a ton of my other angels...oh and go on down there and bitch slap job all you want...just don't kill him ok buddy?.

  3. so thousands of years go by....satan is happily recruiting his demonz in heaven....and hey...since he is getting away with murder...why not kill gods own son?!?

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Ha! You're totally going to hell, oompa.
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  25

  What it may take to get my faith back...You???

  by oompa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this was part of a letter i sent to some family and friends........ i have a few things i have really thought about that may need to happen for me to get my faith back.

  the first would be for the be for the society or the governing body to actually share with me what they claimed in their first letter to me to have, this indirect evidence that the divine name appeared in the original writings of the christian greek scriptures.

  if they do not even have that and will not provide it, then a serious apology is in order for me and all other witnesses, and an explanation for their blatent lie, and a revision of the new world translation is in order removing the name jehovah from the new testament.. as long as this does not happen, i will feel i have been defrauded.. i would also like someone to show me using only the bible how we can arrive at the date 1914 as the arrival of jesus christ, and the end of the gentile times.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Oompa, very good letter. Concise and to the point. Depending on who you sent it to, it might end up being a disassociation letter.
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  8

  JW Attorney Hayden Covington 1978 Interview on my website

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in 1978, jerry murray, a jw elder, interviewed hayden covington, the watch tower attorney who had a prominent role in legal matters for the watch tower society before the u.s. supreme court.

  for those who have never heard this interview before,the murray interview is seventy-five minutes long and now can be found on my website, www.watchtowerdocuments.com.

  scroll down to the year, 1978. .

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Thanks for including this. Your site is an amazing resource. Keep up the good work!
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  24

  Civil Rights Lawsuit Hits 6 Oregon Watchtower Leaders

  by purplesofa in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  purps.

  civil rights lawsuit hits 6 oregon watchtower elders.

  after xxxxxx sent a link off of justia.com, i found more information on this lawsuit filed december 3, 2008 in federal court in oregon.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Move along, nothing to see here. This lady is suing the elders seeking to be reinstated. The complaint is a rambling, handwritten screed.

  If you want a copy of the complaint, you can download it from the court's PACER service (https://ecf.ord.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/login.pl). It costs 8 cents per page and you have to register with a credit card.
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  89

  the high cost of divorcing a JW............

  by oompa in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  divorce is hard for everyone, unless the person is just jumping for joy to get out it.....but even then it can be rough....and you lose half your assets.....some people stay in bad marriages just because they can not afford to be divorced........ but esp if you are a born in jw.....you know what is so unfair compared to normal non-jw divorces????

  ?....what is so fukkin unfair?!?

  !.......that you lose all your friends and family!!!!

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I second everything bonnzo said above. And I'm not minimizing your situation. But think about this. Your basic human needs (food, clothing, shelter) are cared for. You've taken care of that because you're smart and a hard worker. That's something to be proud of. Also, you've got some real friends who care about you unconditionally. So, from where I'm sitting, you've got a lot going for you. You've got a beach house for Christ's sake!

  Maybe my position is the minority view, but I think divorce is a bad thing all around and should only be viewed as a last resort. In fact, it is my personal view (and I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes here) that divorce is only appropriate in cases of (1) adultery or (2) abuse. I guess I'm old-fashioned, but I think that when you make a promise you should keep it.

  It may be that Mrs. Oompa will always be a JW. She doesn't force you to do JW stuff, and I know that you guys have other non-JW things that you like to do. So, focus on that. Oompa, you have a good life. You have opportunities that lots of your peers don't have. Yes, your life isn't perfect, but nobody's is.

  Your friend,

  OMG
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  30

  Anyone remember this former C.O.: Kevin Wright?

  by Olin Moyles Ghost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  during the early 2000s, kevin wright was the c.o.

  for a circuit that included several of my friends.

  i remember hearing my friends complain about what a tool this guy was--and these complainers weren't just "lowly" publishers--some of them were elders and pioneers.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  As far as I know, Kevin does not have a college degree. If I remember correctly, he is an ex-Bethelite and MTS grad. His "experience" probably comes from serving on Hospital Liaison Committees and related matters.
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  18

  What will the WBTS do about the youth problem?

  by easyreader1970 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  many youngsters, even ones brought up in "the truth", are leaving the organization, some never to return.

  they're not doing so because they want to party or gain wealth (as the society would have you believe) but they are doing so because they are not stupid.

  it is no longer 1974. people have much more information at their fingertips these days and nobody is closer to the signal of the internet than young people.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  I think some of the recent changes (one less meeting night, shorter public talks) are in response to the lack of men "reaching out for privileges." If serving as an elder is not as difficult, then perhaps young JWs will reach out. Will the Society make further concessions in order to keep existing elders from quitting and entice future elders to reach out? Who knows?

  But even if the Society doesn't make any changes, there will always be a supply of JW men who want to be elders. It's likely that more of these will come from the poor, disadvantaged communities from which the religion draws most of its growth. While lots of us (myself included) joke about the so-called "power" that elders have, I can imagine that it's not such a laughing matter to a poor immigrant who feels marginalized by the world.
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  27

  The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnessees and Personal Study - A Commentary

  by AllTimeJeff in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  first of all, i have wt library through 2007 now.

  i am going to post the question box on this topic to read, then discuss.

  my comments in red, (or other assorted colors).

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  Good review. This article had quite an effect on me.

  My buddy bonnzo mentioned how this article seems to directly contradict Acts 17:11 about the Beroeans. And there are other NT scriptures that appear to command Christians to test everything they hear and not to follow a man's interpretation of scripture. Some of my favorites are:

  • 1 John 4:1: “Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.”

  • 2 Cor. 13:5: “Keep testing whether you are in the faith, keep proving what you yourselves are."

  • 1 Thess. 5:21: “Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.”

  • John 4:24: "God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth."

  I don't see how a Christian can read these verses and still believe that he should unquestioningly follow a group of men.
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  18

  Do the resurrected get to have babies?

  by sass_my_frass in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok obviously a dumb question, for so many reasons, but i need to know what the current doctrine is re the resurrected; last time i looked they were 'as angels' in that they're not able to breed, which solves the population problem of bringing back to life almost everybody who has ever died.

  anyway thing is this; my sisters' cancer has been resolved for now in that she's currently 'cancer free'.

  it has, however, been a melanoma, a germinoma and a few carcinoma so she's being scanned pretty regularly, and i don't have a lot of info to go on but i think that nobody's talking about what her odds really are.

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  Olin Moyles Ghost

  No. According to JW theology (and Matthew 22) resurrected people will not be married. Thus, they will not have children. Of course, in a traditional Christian context of a resurrection to heaven, this seems reasonable. But, when applied to the JW concept of a paradise earth, Jesus' statement to the Sadducees in Matt. 22:30 that "in the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but are as angels in heaven" seems out of place.

  This account troubled me as a Witness. It seemed like a perfect opportunity for Jesus to witness about the paradise earth. But instead he used a heavenly example. And, remember, under Witness theology, the hypothetical widow in this account would not be a candidate for heavenly life, because she died before Jesus was resurrected.

  Sadly, many JW widows and widowers hope against hope that they will be able to reunite with their mates in the New Order. They reason that God's promise that he will "satisfy the desire of every living thing" means that, no matter what happens, they will be happy in the New System. Thus, they wait on Jehovah...and wait...and wait...